tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post1896891023281491709..comments2023-02-10T11:23:37.405+00:00Comments on More Stress, Less Success: Want to be a teacher? Why bother!Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13726334168528203927noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post-13456403321812693992012-06-30T20:30:32.665+01:002012-06-30T20:30:32.665+01:00As a non-teacher I am surprised to hear that teach...As a non-teacher I am surprised to hear that teachers feed devalued by society. It seems that this is not because of the pay changes but that you feel it is a change in attitude?<br /><br />I am a software engineer and have a business also and I know that whenever I tell anyone my sister is a teacher, they are very impressed with this. In fact they are always asking if I am the teacher or the vet (my other sister)! This despite the fact that I don't go into any technicalities about what I do. In fact, I recently had a conversation with a few older ladies who were talking about a girl that works with me - one said to the other that she was very intelligent - as she has a masters but more than that she had done the HDip - so she could be a teacher if she wanted!!<br /><br />So am surprised you feel society doesn't have the same value on it..People have always commented on the holidays teachers get and it is a great benefit. But this is not a new thing for people to say it. I took a 3 months leave of absence (unpaid) 2 years ago in my job but that's it now I can't take it again. Whilst if I was a teacher I'd have 3 months or whatever it is every year. I do appreciate that good teachers put in a lot of extra work outside of school hours tho. Then again I was in work yesterday evening till 9pm.<br /><br />I do think the differences in pay are bad tho and I hope that those decisions are reversed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post-55401630629780805102012-04-13T09:16:04.574+01:002012-04-13T09:16:04.574+01:00+1 Well said+1 Well saidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post-81256095530221864102012-04-13T00:16:29.799+01:002012-04-13T00:16:29.799+01:00Thank you for taking the time to write this articl...Thank you for taking the time to write this article. An insightful piece that I recommend all teachers and parents should read. As a teacher, I feel that we should be able to speak about maintaining our pay and conditions without feeling that we are being selfish and unreasonable. It is a mistake to allow the conditions of new entrants to teaching to be worsened as this will ultimately cause divisions within staffrooms and undermine the trade union principle of protecting the weakest link.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post-62145195016119442932012-04-12T21:09:05.667+01:002012-04-12T21:09:05.667+01:00I hadn't seen that research before so let me h...I hadn't seen that research before so let me have a read. But, it should be noted that some roles require further education and training e.g. guidance counsellors, principal etc. I take the point that ones basic qualifications (those required to teach) shouldn't warrant extra pay as the current allowance system outlines. The fact is those allowances should never have been outside the basic pay.<br /><br />It should be noted that most teachers partake in in-service training several times a year (unpaid and mostly out of school time) in order to keep up to date with syllabi, new technologies, methodologies etc. <br /><br />Thanks for contributing Dave - always good to hear the perspective of non-teachers.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13726334168528203927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post-39524897201326062152012-04-12T14:28:33.108+01:002012-04-12T14:28:33.108+01:00Stop feeling sorry for yourself. First off my brot...Stop feeling sorry for yourself. First off my brother is a teacher and I have discussed his pay and conditions with him many times so I have not been brainwashed by anti ps propaganda.<br />You are rich and when you retire you will be even richer.<br />You have not had a 15% paycut - the pension levy was not a paycut.<br />I do agree newly qualified teachers have been shafted by their union and any newly qualified teacher who joins a union is a fool.<br />€27000 is a great starting salary for a qraduate with no experience and no I dont count the HDIp as experience and if you were honest neither would you.<br />No one has the right to a job, I have a degree and I am doing a second one now after been unemployed for years. I was builder/engineer, you could argue we need shelter, sewerage, water and roads - all things I have either built or designed - more than we need teachers. But that would lead to nonsense, I would argue we need both. But rational arguments have no place were teachers are feeling sorry for themselves.<br />Part time teachers earn about 55 euro/hour, correct me if I am wrong but it is near to that figue. Not a bad rate. The fact that they cant get work just might be sone to how expensive their older permanent collegues are. Lower pay for more teachers should be the way forward.<br />You mention a pay scale but forgot to mention that you probably started out on point 3 and are paid huge allowances for your degree/masters and HDip. These are things you needed to have to be allowed teach in the first place. Why are you paid more for them?<br />Point 10 as you mention is 53,423 there are plenty of accountants on 60,000 for a lot more hours and that is after a business degree (usually 4 years not the 3 years for an Arts degree) and professional exams taken over a number of years. That is just one profession I can refer to others with about the same pay.<br />My own pay when working was 42,000 for a 8 - 6, Monday to Friday and sometomes work on a Saturday week. With 21 holidays. from that gross pay I made a 5% contribution to my pension and this was matched by my employer.<br />The HSE may pay a cleaner 26,000 I would suggest that maybe we pay the cleaner too much.<br />I do agree that TDs and ministers are paid too much, maybe the teachers unions should protest against this.<br />You mention the devaluation of your profession, I would think the teachers unions behaviour over the last few years would have a lot to do with it. Seeing people who act in parents place during school time acting like children is of course going to devalue your profession. I would also think if you add in huge increase of people with a third level qualification over the last 20 years you will now find that teachers are not any more qualified than Mr or Ms average. Maybe you havent devalued others have risen up to your level.<br />I will finish with the extra sports supervision you do. Of course you do it, you have the option when the school day is over,we dont finish until 5 or 6. There is also plent of coaching done on Saturday and Sunday. The men who coached my rugby team in school were not teachers they did it for the love of the game. As does the men who coach my sons football team. a friend of mine was a scout leader before he had to emigrate for work. Should we pay all of the above because their work is no less than teachers do. Or is it just teachers who get paid for coaching teams.<br />If disapline is a problem in the class room that is really something that shoul have been taken care of years ago, instead teachers went for pay and not improving their conditions, again another failing by your unions.<br />You have a well paid secure job stop moaning because some of us can see through your spinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post-70046075736106377382012-04-12T13:34:49.383+01:002012-04-12T13:34:49.383+01:00This certainly is a great post that gets to the he...This certainly is a great post that gets to the heart of the problem we face as teachers. I personally have no problem with anyone having a negative view in terms of our profession,what I do have a problem with is when this view is based on misinformation! How can we expect the future of teaching to be in safe hands if its becoming more and more unattractive due to the way we are being treated?!ETumeltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04775787967898897042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post-19141061782744380502012-04-12T12:07:55.368+01:002012-04-12T12:07:55.368+01:00'they are based on how qualified an individual...'they are based on how qualified an individual teacher is, their extra responsibilities, where they teach (in the case of Island dwellers or teachers in Gaeltacht areas) or for their years of service (only after 35 years mind you). '<br /><br />The evidence from America says that extra postgraduate qualifications and extra experience (beyond the first three years) has little to no effect on the quality of teaching. <br />http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2011/08/hanushek_on_tea.html<br /><br />Why should you get paid more for something that doesn't improve your skill at a job? May more to good teachers not to people who happen to be older?Iamreddavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02768287658329807075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post-21843613490792394762012-04-12T12:05:03.690+01:002012-04-12T12:05:03.690+01:00Great post! Captures everything a lot of us, your ...Great post! Captures everything a lot of us, your colleagues, have been thinking.<br />I think the most important words you used. Humphrey were I love my job. When this goes from teaching, students and education is in trouble. I am a teacher and I have always loved my work, but like you I find myself less inclined to recommend it to indecisive youngsters now. It is getting more difficult to develop respect and trust in classrooms where teachers are less and less respected and trusted (i.e. valued, and seen to be valued) by the paymasters. And where there is less respect and trust, there is less long lasting useful education for students.amondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09351863400877616505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post-12585100736069518692012-04-12T07:59:02.438+01:002012-04-12T07:59:02.438+01:00I wholeheartedly agree with your piece Humphrey. I...I wholeheartedly agree with your piece Humphrey. It seems that many people feel qualified to pontificate about the teaching profession with their only real knowledge of it being that they went to school. It seems we have become the easy target. <br /><br />The problems that exist are complex and cannot be fixed with broad strokes of the minister's pen. Professionals should act as such, but they also deserve fair pay and the opportunity of promotion as incentive for further training and education to provide the best outcome for students.Trevornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post-89547627458727499772012-04-11T23:23:46.496+01:002012-04-11T23:23:46.496+01:00I completely agree that Ireland will face an educa...I completely agree that Ireland will face an educational crisis in years to come because of what is happening at the moment. It is very frustrating to hear talk of a smart economy while everything is being done to plunder the education system that we currently have. Calling the economy a smart economy doesn't make it one - work has to be done to make a smart economy and that starts with the education system. A huge part of this is attracting people in to the profession on an ongoing basis which sadly is not happening at the moment.Pam O Brienhttp://pamobriensblog.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post-25699107791683442452012-04-11T23:01:32.126+01:002012-04-11T23:01:32.126+01:00Nice summary sir! Let's end the allowances myt...Nice summary sir! Let's end the allowances myth and create a real sense of ambition within the profession! New teachers need something to aim for rather than 10 years of penuryJohn nisbethttp://www.mrnisbet.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074271844855651082.post-37063572491715005522012-04-11T22:50:07.930+01:002012-04-11T22:50:07.930+01:00I so want to write a rant in reply to this but as ...I so want to write a rant in reply to this but as a subbing teacher and who will be looking for job in a few weeks again, I cannot put anything online that may go against me <br /><br />@johnmayoJohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10669228600163422849noreply@blogger.com